The River Song Confusing Question FAQ
It occurs to us that many readers of the Doctor Who Blog have had and will have a lot of questions about River Song now that her secret identity has been revealed. Here’s our best attempt at some answers (and it goes without saying but we will say it anyways, this contains spoilers for Episodes 1 through 7 of the 2011 season which has recently finished broadcasting):
Q: Why doesn’t River tell Rory and Amy that she’s their daughter when she first meets them (or rather, when they first meet her)?
A. River herself would probably answer this with “Spoilers”. She only seems to tell them when she wants to reassure them that their daughter is going to be okay – which perhaps may still be a “spoiler” from their perspective, but an understandable one. It is also worth noting that she tells them the first time they could possibly even believe a 40-something woman could possibly be their daughter, as this is the first time she sees them after they both know that Amy was not only pregnant but actually had a baby.
Q. Hang on a minute – why doesn’t River seem to recognize Rory in The Pandorica Opens when that adventure, from River’s timeline, takes place after The Impossible Astronaut and A Good Man Goes to War?
A. This question bothered me since the broadcast of The Impossible Astronaut but the answer is actually provided in The Pandorica Opens and was staring me straight in the face the whole time. It is because at that moment, when she is surprised to encounter the “plastic centurion” (as she calls him), Rory has been wiped out of existence. Amy, his own girlfriend, doesn’t remember him initially either, and Rory, as we now know, is just as important to River’s life as he is to Amy (unlike the less significant-to-Amy clerics that Amy is able to remember in The Time of Angels.)
Q. So if River is Amy’s baby and also the little girl trapped in the astronaut’s suit in The Impossible Astronaut , why doesn’t she, as a grown woman, remember the events of that story when she was a little girl? Being trapped in a spacesuit and shot-at isn’t exactly something one forgets even 40 years later.
A. Well, assuming it is the same person (which is definitely implied by A Good Man Goes to War) we have to keep in mind that she can regenerate as we see her start to do that at the end of Day of the Moon – and so we don’t actually know how old River Song (as played by Alex Kingston) actually is. This could be hundreds of years later since she’s basically “human plus Time Lord” (which actually allows the character of River Song to possibly go on indefinitely with the actress re-cast as an earlier incarnation) so maybe she has genuinely forgotten. Also, with The Silence’s involvement and the tricks they play on one’s memory, they may have done something to her memory so that she doesn’t remember events from her past as well as one might think. Truth is, we don’t have a specific answer to this one yet, but this story obviously isn’t over.
Q. If River can regenerate, why doesn’t she do so at the end of Silence in the Library?
A. This one’s a bit easier to answer – because the power that killed her would have killed the Doctor, even though he could also regenerate. This is stated in that story (even that the power would go through “both hearts” and kill him – we assume for the moment she only has one), and is the whole point of River’s sacrifice – to save the Doctor so that the two of them will go on to have all those wonderful moments together. We also don’t know how many regenerations River has, since a “Human plus Time Lord” is something the show has never seen before.
Q. So how come River remembers the Doctor in order to give Amy her diary as a wedding present, which in turn enables Amy to remember the Doctor in order to bring him back from the crack in time?
A. Steven Moffat indicated prior to the start of the season that this question will be answered this year – although her appearance at the wedding takes on an entirely different complexion now that it appears she, at the very least, would have been there to attend the marriage of her parents. Incidentally, although nobody knew it at the time, River is actually the 2nd companion of the Doctor to travel back in time to visit her parent’s wedding (Rose Tyler being the first).
Q. So is River Song in the spacesuit which shoots and kills the Doctor?
A. Our name isn’t “Steven Moffat” – I’m afraid we’re all going to have to wait to find out the answer to that one.
Posted by Luca on Tuesday, June 21 at 2:24 pm
43 Comments...
But, but, but… if Rory never existed, how can River exist for “The Pandorica Opens”?
Posted by Aurilay on 06/21 at 04:37 PM
The same way that Amy can exist for the entirety of the 2010 season even though her parents were eaten by the crack and wiped out of existence, and the same way that photographs of Rory and the engagement ring he got Amy can exist even though Rory was wiped out of existence (temporarily) - this is the way the time energy of the crack works. The Doctor explains this in The Pandorica Opens, that the crack wiped people out but they would leave traces behind - pictures, objects, offspring etc.
Posted by Luca on 06/21 at 05:04 PM
Although regenerating potentially allows previous, non-AK versions of River to be featured; I also wonder whether the ganger technology allows the Doctor to retrieve her from the Library’s computer - something the papal mainframe herself might approve of.
Posted by Jon on 06/21 at 07:25 PM
More than that because if the Doctor was wiped from existence then the universe wouldn’t exist anymore either. That plus the fact that he was waiting to come back suited up for the wedding shows that it really wasn’t all that big a deal for him.
Posted by Ryan on 06/22 at 05:42 AM
Sorry, this question doesn’t relate to River Song, but it just occured to me. Did anyone else think it was odd that Dr Renfrew (the man in the orphanage in Day of the Moon) was dressed just like the Doctor? Also, the fact that he’s DOCTOR Renfrew… Probably just a coincidence, but it might be noteworthy later on.
Posted by Demosthenes on 06/23 at 08:58 AM
Actually I guess it’s already been answered how River remembered the Doctor as she had qualities that resemble Time Lords hence like the Doctor remembered Rory she remembered the Doctor.
Posted by Ryan on 06/23 at 10:19 AM
Something that needs to be remembered is we do not encounter River in chronological order. In The Big Bang she doesn’t know Rory - which suggests that the River encountered in that episode perhaps did not know what her father looked like. She could also have been simply playing it cool, like in Silence in the Library when she meets the Tenth Doctor, and has to realize he’s never met her before in his chronology, yet carries on with an “early days” comment.
Posted by Alex on 06/23 at 02:31 PM
*sigh*
The fact that we even need an FAQ for this just goes to show how painfully drawn-out - and absurdly over-complicated - this story has become… I’m so beyond caring at this point, and would do anything for an episode that generates buzz based on its actual plot rather than a throwaway comment in the last scene that somehow relates to that blessed arc.
Posted by Brett on 06/25 at 08:41 AM
Well stated Brett!
So, we know River Song is Amy and Rory’s son and the Doctor’s mum, can we move on with stories that aren’t so convoluted? Oh, and enough with the Daleks.
Posted by Noel on 06/27 at 09:00 AM
Some other possibilities that come to mind.
- The Doctor killed by the astronaut is a ganger.
- The child is River Song’s baby and not River Song herself. If River Song is enough timelord then the cot may actually belong to her and the doctor. We don’t know what writing was actually on it.
- Expect the Daleks to turn up. They are the only ones missing and were reborn in the WWII episode. Also the circle at the end of the birthing chamber looks like a Dalek eyepiece. Lastly they hate the doctor the most.
I’m fed up with the massive dalek army wiped out in a single stroke plot. It it were that easy, why didn’t the time lords win the war. Instead it was a statemate.
Posted by Gavin on 06/28 at 02:26 PM
I agree with Brett. The trouble with this ridiculously complicated time paradoxical plot is that while it may appeal to the “real” fans, it will only turn off the general audience, and like it or not, that general audience is needed to keep the show alive. If too many give up on the show because they can’t follow the story it’s going to be over for all of us. Some standalone adventure type episodes are desparately needed.
In a few words, Doctor Who under Mr. Moffat is becoming “inaccessible” to the average viewer.
Posted by The Observer on 06/29 at 09:50 AM
There’s not really much evidence of the “general audience” or the “average viewer” being turned off the show. The ratings remain high and steady in the UK and they are actually up in North America, and the AI (audience feedback) results remain very positive.
Posted by Luca on 06/29 at 11:16 AM
I think the thing to recognize is that you have dedicated fan viewers, loyal viewers, regular viewers and then the actual casual audience.
The casuals don’t really tune in that often and when they do enough information is repeated that they can follow along.
I’ve never bought this idea that things like this turn off the general audience. They do have to pay a bit more attention but it’s hardly all that taxing. The difference is that they just accept what comes to them while fans spend time playing the game to figure out what is going on ahead of time. Two different things.
This is similar to people complaining about the JNT era having too much “continuity” that will turn people off etc but as Luca has pointed out many times he showed people with no knowledge of Doctor Who Attack of the Cybermen and they had no problem with it. Continuity is something that is of far more concern with fans than to regular viewers. That doesn’t mean that it can’t be made confusing like The Stolen Earth re Sarah’s reaction to Davros or other things about Davros, the Daleks, etc but that didn’t hurt the ratings of Part 2 or the AI which shows once again that even if their actually is a problem as that story did have it still doesn’t really matter to the audience because they don’t know that it is wrong. That should be a concern for the producers who make it on a story level but really isn’t on an audience one.
Posted by Ryan on 06/30 at 09:01 AM
About the sacrifice, NO TIME!!!!
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Posted by Pirates Treasure Trove Spielautomat on 07/22 at 01:01 AM
I agree we need some stand alone adventures. I’ve been confused throughout the whole season & sick of feeling I need to be a detective to pick up and keep track of various clues that ‘will be explained later’. I want to sit back and be entertained, not feel as though I’ve got to rack my brain over some really difficult homework problem to enjoy the show.
Posted by Gail on 08/16 at 11:29 AM
There was a panel at the World Science Fiction Convention in Reno several weeks ago asking whether “Doctor Who” had jumped the shark. Wellll, after “Let’s Kill Hitler!”, I am beginning to think so. Alex Kingston must be having a ball playing a part that seems to be written so convolutedly (if there is such a term). That and the stealing of a major plot of a Eddie Murphy sci-fi comedy made the show quite the hodgepodge. It could have just as easily have been “Let’s Kill Attila Caligula - Pol Pot or…
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