According to this article, an upcoming episode of The Sarah Jane Adventures will reveal something big…
SPOILERS…
...that there is no limit on how many times the Doctor can regenerate, confirming what the Doctor said in The War Games and contradicting what someone or other said in The Deadly Assassin. This continues the show’s tradition of using some bits of its past and ignoring others.
Posted by John on Thursday, October 14 at 5:43 am
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10 Comments...
I honestly don’t see this as a big deal because they already opened the door for it with the Time Lords resurrecting the Master complete with ability to regenerate. The Doctor indicated in The End of Time during the Time War the Time Lords became so desperate they went beyond the point of reason of accepting death, so I can totally see the limitation being lifted as a consequence of that.
Posted by Graeme on 10/14 at 06:54 AM
I always felt that they would have come up with some line where The Doctor had his cycle re-newed during the Time War, or that something was done to give him in-definate regenerations since he was the last time lord. They should have an explanation though rather than ignore the past and it could be done with just a couple lines of dialog.
Posted by Doug Grandy on 10/14 at 11:19 AM
I think an explanation is important when it becomes necessary to explain it. Right now this leaves it open for interesting things to develop.
Posted by Graeme on 10/14 at 11:22 AM
Doug, my point is that they’re not ignoring the past. Or at least, they’re only ignoring part of the past. Since the show has given us contradictory stories, the production team sort of has to ignore one of them.
Posted by John on 10/14 at 11:24 AM
The Doctor never said a thing about regeneration in The War Games because it didn’t exist in the fiction he said Time Lords were immortal barring accidents but since that was a one-off line never followed up it’s hardly a wonder that no one took notice.
The 12 regenerations is hardly in the same category. It was not only barely mentioned once and forgotten until now but was the crux of the Master’s motivations in The Deadly Assassin, The Keeper of Traken and well as Doctor Who not to mention references in many stories directly or indirectly in Mawdryn Undead, The Five Doctors, and the Master’s return in Series 3 where as first talked about in 5D that the Time Lords could grant a whole new cycle.
Whether or not it’s a question of ignoring is something we’ll see when we see it. The Doctor’s established age where 7 is 953 in Time and the Rani and is already 900 and over 900 in 6’s time has been ignored for whatever reason. Probably they just got it wrong and then rather than just do what could have been a easy minor correction got obstinate about it and reused it many times since then so that now he’s 907. Or many they just thought kids couldn’t count that high?
Contradictions in Doctor Who aren’t what matter. What matters is what was established over time. If the regeneration limit was a one time never bothered with thing again then whatever but it wasn’t. It’s used so many times that it’s repetition and use in stories makes it as close to a fact can be. If Gallifrey had been used only once then it was called Jewel (as in the comics of the 70’s IIRC) over and over again then what would the name be? Jewel.
Posted by Ryan on 10/14 at 03:01 PM
What Ryan said.
Posted by Doug Grandy on 10/14 at 05:44 PM
Ryan, you’re right that the line in The War Games doesn’t mention regeneration, so it could be reconciled with the twelve regeneration limit. But just because it was “barely mentioned once and forgotten” doesn’t make it any less important than the stuff the fans remember. I disagree that repetition makes it closer to fact, but whatever.
Posted by John on 10/14 at 06:11 PM
I don’t think the episode will reference the War Games in any way. I haven’t seen it but those who do say the Doctor gives a somewhat jokey response to a question asked by a kid, which probably means that people can take it as seriously as the notion that Captain Jack is the Face of Boe (ie. not at all) if they so choose, but we’ll soon see.
The 13 limit does need to go at some point (eitehr that or they end the show or re-boot it, which would be silly if it was done for this reason), as long as they don’t try to say that there never was a limit to begin with (as that simply contradicts too much established Who) it should be fine and not a big deal IMO. I suspect this is what will happen because the likes of Moffat and RTD have been great respecters of continuity for the most part.
Posted by Luca on 10/15 at 05:15 PM
Luca, there never was a limit to begin with. The limit was added about halfway thru the show’s run. My point is, who cares what they contradict.
Posted by John on 10/15 at 05:31 PM
My point is that there’s no reason to contradict anything. The Doctor saying “I can now regenerate an unlimited number of times” or “There’s no longer a limit” doesn’t actually contradict what’s gone before, all it says is what is currently the case and the fans can theorize until the cows come home as to what (in story terms) has caused the change. That would be fine, and in fact I think necessary at some point for the future of the show. What I would object to, and what I don’t think will happen, is something akin to the Doctor saying “There has never, ever been a limit to how many times I can regenerate” as that would be deliberately stomping on the past about as much as the Doctor saying “I’ve never, ever been a Time Lord, nor have I ever thought I was one” and “There was never any such thing as the Time War” would be (like the regeneration limit, both are heavily established aspects of the Doctor Who mythos which weren’t there in the first episode either).
Posted by Luca on 10/15 at 06:24 PM
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